Saul Alinsky?s son: ?Obama learned his lesson well?

**R13** · September 7th, 2008, 09:38 PM

Huh? [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif[/img]

**CoeburnCane** · September 8th, 2008, 09:34 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NotSoSilentBob</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoeburnCane</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Communist leanings =/= Communist

You can have an idea or thought that lies with a particular genre of political thought, but that doesn't mean 100% of your political beliefs are of that genre.

I'm not defending him one way or another--that's just simple logic. Just because a Republican is against abortion doesn't make them a Baptist pastor, for instance. </div></div>

Being a Baptist pastor is a bad thing?</div></div>

Nope--and thanks for trying to spin it like I said that when I didn't.

Being against abortion is a political stance, not a religious one. If a senator/representative/POTUS is against abortion, then that doesn't automatically make them the holiest of holies (as some right-wing people would believe at a glance). It means they have a political stance, not religion.

However--Being against Abortion doesn't make you a good moral person as a whole, just like having "communist leanings" (whatever that means, as vague as it is) doesn't make you an actual pinko-commie meathead.

**TheBeast** · September 8th, 2008, 11:01 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Being against abortion is a political stance, not a religious one</div></div>

It is more a religious stance than it is political.

"Communist learnings" is spelled out fairly clearly in the aritcle, it isn't vague at all and is explained in the article how he took the teachings of communism and used them.
Talk about trying to spin something.

**sup-rbeast** · September 8th, 2008, 11:06 AM

...and it's more of an ignorance stance than it is a religious stance. The more educated someone is, the more likely they are to support abortion rights.

**CoeburnCane** · September 8th, 2008, 11:12 AM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheBeast</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Being against abortion is a political stance, not a religious one</div></div>

It is more a religious stance than it is political. </div></div>

I simply disagree. People may believe it's religiously wrong, but it's bandied around as a political soapbox nowadays. It may have religious roots, but it's one of the first things people ask about a candidate, regardless of party--it's morphed into a purely political stance.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Communist learnings" is spelled out fairly clearly in the aritcle, it isn't vague at all and is explained in the article how he took the teachings of communism and used them.
Talk about trying to spin something. </div></div>

If you're talking about how he organized events--the Republicans do the same thing. They get people to come in and testify to what they feel are injustices and they rally support for the change of it. That's the main "communist leaning" that was addressed in said article. Basically, what is being called "communist leaning" above is fund-raising & rally-holding for a particular cause. No political party could survive w/o either one--ask the messiah of the right, Karl Rove. That guy got Bush elected 2x via this type of grass-roots movement across the country to dupe just enough people into believing he was gonna bring better times to this country.

If we're gonna bomb on one guy for this, apply it to everybody b/c we're not all innocent. This is like saying Coeburn High is a communist leaning HS because we hold pep rallies before Friday football games, rallying support over someone saying our team can't win.

It's all silliness and none of this will have an actual affect as to what the outcome of this election will be.

**NotSoSilentBob** · September 8th, 2008, 03:53 PM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sup-rbeast</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...and it's more of an ignorance stance than it is a religious stance. The more educated someone is, the more likely they are to support abortion rights. </div></div>

Keep 'em coming... [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif[/img]

**sup-rbeast** · September 8th, 2008, 04:54 PM

Just a couple sources:

The relationship between religion and education has been at the heart of numerous cultural conflicts in the United States. Struggles over educational institutions have in many ways defined the relation of religious groups to U.S. public life. The orientation of Mainline Protestantism to public life in the early to mid-20th century was reflected in their active support for a general Protestant ethos within the public schools (Handy, 1967). Many conservative Protestants define the boundary between themselves and dominant trends in U.S. culture through their interpretation of cultural conflict in the public schools (Sikkink & Smith, 2000). In his well-known work on "culture wars,"? James Hunter (1991) argued that education was a crucial front in the battle of orthodox and progressive ways of knowing. Progressive views of truth, which see morality as unfolding rather than fixed, lie behind an emphasis in secular educational institutions on child-centered education, and this perspective is at war with traditional views of absolute morality (Hunter, 2000; Nolan, 1998). This shift increases the tendency of conservative religious groups to frame their relation to dominant American culture in terms of a cultural conflict over schooling institutions.

and this one can't be copied:
http://www.jstor.org/pss/1387945

**imported_ut1** · September 8th, 2008, 05:15 PM

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sup-rbeast</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...and it's more of an ignorance stance than it is a religious stance. The more educated someone is, the more likely they are to support abortion rights. </div></div>

Wow, I can't believe you posted that. There's a bunch of college degrees floating around in my family, five of which are in the medical profession, and you'll not find a one of them that is pro-abortion, or even pro-choice. They are pro-lifers. Two of those have decades of OB/GYN experience (one of which even helped deliver a local celebrity athlete). They flatly refused to assist in abortion cases because of their views, but because of their calling ministered to the patient afterwards. Talk about a tough road to walk!

I would say the opposite is true. The less educated someone is, the more likely they are to support abortion rights. Well, maybe not less educated....maybe more ignorant would be the better phrase.